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Seer Training: Christian or mysticism
A church in Scotland which is part of a mainstream denomination is running a course on Seer Training. Is this forward thinking or a route into occultic mysticism?
by Watchman
 We live in a day of both great threat and great opportunity.
Churches are haemhorraging members, our nation is now post-Christian and we are seeing new government legislation coming onto force which is making it more and more difficult for believers at all levels to maintain a solid Christian witness. A post-war baby boom of church leaders is heading for retirement whilst Christian denominations increasingly are following the secular tide into condoning and encouraging immoral models of relationship.
But change also presents great opportunity. Whenever prevailing and historical models are threatened, the loss of the status quo can produce a vacuum into which new things can flow and new paradigms emerge.
The question today is whether what is 'new' is biblical or a return to mystic and deviant practices.
The following is the blurb attaching to a forthcoming course in Scotland for Christians.
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The Seer Course
The Seer Course will walk you through the ancient Hebrew definition of the seeing gift and how it applies to you personally today. In this course, you will learn practical applications of how to function as a seer, how God wants to communicate with you as a seer, and how He taught Jeremiah to see.
You will grow in metaphorical (sic) [should be 'metaphysical'? - Ed.] understanding and be amazed as you realize all the implications and possibilities of this gift. Most importantly, this course will change your life at a day-to-day level and radically heighten your relationship with God.
The Seer Course addresses these questions and more:
- How do you know you have this gift?
- How do you know you’re not just making it up?
- Does seeing include more than just spiritual sight?
- How do you operate as a seer?
- What are orbs, lights, and strange things you think you see?
- What is the seer’s role in relationship with God and others?
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What is indisputable in the age in which we live is that 'new' things are emerging at an unprecedented rate and the need for spiritual discernment is critical in our time. The word of God teaches us that there is nothing new under the sun. But these things can reappear clad in a new (different) set of clothes, so the need for continual vigilance is paramount. And the most subtle forms of deception is counterfeit of the real thing. The danger is even greater when there is (some) truth mixed in with error.
But in these issues, the days of fence-sitting and abstract philosophising are over. Opportunity or threat? It's make your mind up time. |
Watchman, 28/08/2009
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Peter Carr (Guest) |
01/09/2009 07:33 |
Let us not forget the one and only true source for all of this 'seeing' with respect to true Christians!
John 16:13 (New International Version)
"But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come."
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Mark Hadfield |
01/09/2009 09:53 |
Thanks folks :o)
I was trying to address what I perceived to be the major concerns in the original Watchman article, and some concerns that I know are "out there" in general, rather than commenting on my fellow commentators ;-)
You've all stated some very Biblical points that are at the heart of the matter. But the funny(?) thing is I didn't perceive the course blurb to contravene these points, rather the course seems to me to offer to help with them. For example, taking the first two bullet points from the quoted course description:
"how do you know you have this gift?" would seem to align at least to some extent with Andrea's question, and there would seem to be confirmation in the question itself that this can't be merely learned or earned, but has to be gifted by God.
"how do you know you’re not just making it up?" would seem to start digging into the area of Peter's concern, and it is the most critical question: "what's the source?" I find that most Christians of maturity (me too!) are quite rightly very concerned about discerning between the leading of God's Spirit and that of our own flesh - or even something else.
The course seems to me to include in it's content a treatment of the very concerns we are raising?
Also, as I read the course description, the overall impression I get is that this is a course for those who are already blessed with visions and want to understand more about that. (Though I'm sure those who also have a hunger for this blessing (as Eddie raised) would learn something too, and *if* the hunger is God-given then maybe God in His sovereignty would start to satisfy that hunger as understanding and maturity increased through the course?)
I think there's a big need for helping people who are blessed in specific gifts to grow in maturity and trustworthiness in the use of that gift. Where are the equivalent of the Old Testament Schools Of The Prophets for example, who will guide and teach on character and maturity and cause a gifted individual to earn trustworthiness (not gift) before being allowed to bless others through the use of a gift? We do that for ministers and preachers don't we? We don't say that a God-called (i.e. gifted) minister or preacher is unfit to pastor or to teach, but we do expect a degree of schooling (whatever form that takes) and maturity (testing and validation) before we let them loose on the flock.
So. I have a lot of dreams and visions. I always have done ever since that first encounter with Jesus and His Word. I read the course blurb and I thought to myself "here's an opportunity to mature some more in this area". Furthermore, I know the guys at Whiteinch Church and I respect their character and what they do: so I'm expecting submission to Scripture. So I signed-up. I'll be in Glasgow this weekend.
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Editor |
01/09/2009 10:21 |
Thank you Mark for your gracious response and apology; and also for the encouragement of your testimony. I think Andrea has said it very well regarding concerns. And of course we all wish to see God working in all the ways that He has and does.
You have also made two very good points -
1. The use of new words. It can save a great deal of trouble if the Christian community would stick to biblical phraseology. This is not just a problem of the present day, but it does remain a very real problem. (I wrote an article about "Straw men" and the difficulties that vocabulary can create).
2. Also very interesting your mention of the New Age. Yesterday I pointed out to my daughter a rainbow symbol on the rear window of a parked car and asked her if she could see anything wrong with it. She couldn't (and she is a psychologist by profession). I then pointed out to her that it had only six colours; and of course she then 'got it'. The symbol that I am referring to was/is one of the key logos developed by the New Age Movement (which I studied and spoke publicly on over a period of years in the 90s). I was just emphasising to her that counterfeit (by definition) looks like the real thing.
Regarding the course, maybe you could do a short 'write up' for us all. (And perhaps the organisers would be interested to read what Andrea has written.)
All joy,
Ed.
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Mark Hadfield |
01/09/2009 12:24 |
Thanks Ed. Just coming back to Andrea's point about learning to hear God. I guess the big question is: "who is the instigator - us or God?" and a concern is "does this course imply that we can be instigators and selfish consumers?"
FWIW. I think we can learn how to hear God. I think we need to. I think God wants us to.
BUT that doesn't twist His arm to speak, nor to use methods that we might find more exhilarating than others (nor to say what we want to hear!)
I think Andrea might agree with that? (reading between the lines of what she's said)
Learning to hear from God is studying the ways that He's spoken before, learning to recognise His voice (authoritative reference: Scripture), checking out what we're hearing with others of good character, and developing a posture of honour and availability towards Him so that when He chooses to speak we're already listening / enquiring. That's pretty much it ;-)
I'd be VERY surprised if the course didn't agree with that, but if it doesn't then I'll be out of there like a shot!
Is that helpful?
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Rosemary Cameron |
02/09/2009 21:30 |
To me as a Highlander the word seer is loaded with occult overtones and I think it is very unwise for any christian church to use it, however good their intentions. As to the course itself, it sounds a bit mechanistic, like so many of the things coming into the church today (I'm thinking of Healing Rooms Technicians, Streams Ministries Dream Interpretation courses to name two) however I reserve judgement until we get feedback after the course.
Given that the purpose of Watchman articles is to pose a question and stimulate debate I do not have a problem with the use of a pseudonym. We are all free to disagree with Watchman, or not to respond at all. I like the Watchman articles - they are thought-provoking.
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Mark Hadfield |
03/09/2009 12:22 |
I have no experience of Healing Rooms, but I do have first-hand experience of Streams Ministries Dream Interpretation courses: they teach very clearly that there is no mechanistic way of interpreting dreams and reiterate every few hours or so the words of Joseph in Genesis 40 "do not interpretations belong to God?"
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Eddie Hallahan |
03/09/2009 14:11 |
I don't understand how people can quite happily accept the need for teachers helping us get better on something like studying the bible yet seem to go all superstitious when we apply the same thinking to the gift of the Spirit.
Personally I think that we could do with a bit more teaching on the things of the spirit and less anonymous rhetoric and superstition.
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Andrea Mac |
03/09/2009 18:08 |
Eddie,
We are all actively encouraged in the Scriptures to study the Bible to gain understanding and wisdom.
However, as you correctly describe it "The Gift of the Spirit", is just that - a gift. Every Christian obviously has the gift of the Holy Spirit within them but very few have the gift of prophesy and you can't be taught how to exercise a gift that you don't have.
To instruct individuals on how to exercise such a practice and send them out is not helpful and is potentially disastrous, as they are going out purely in their own strength instead of God's.
Imagine the same scenario applied to the gift of casting out demons. This is something which requires very definite strengths and knowledge. To imagine that by attending a course you are then equipped to cast out a demon from someone is extremely dangerous, both to the person involved and the one trying to exorcise the demon.
If God has given a special gift to any Christian, He will ensure that you have a way of hone it and use it properly and to His glory.
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Rosemary Cameron |
03/09/2009 22:38 |
If the interpretation of dreams belongs to God (and I believe that it does) why does anyone need to pay to go on courses to learn dream interpretation?
As for teaching on the things of the spirit, 1 Corinthians is a good place to start.
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Alec (Guest) |
04/09/2009 09:35 |
Just got back. 2 quick responses
George Orr. Yes I DO want the Holy Spirit. No I dont want the lunacy that goes with the charismaniac movement. They bring Christianity into disrepute, time and again and again. And looking at the amount of argument and confusion that this thread has generated, I am not surprised.
Alan Hughes states "throw the homosexual ministers into the street" Think shame. that was a horrible thing to say. You draw no distinction WHATSOEVER between "homosexual" (as in orientation) and "actively homosexual" (as in behaviour") So much for "loving " those who "struggle" with homosexuality. According to you, even if a minister isnt a practising gay, simply being homosexual is enough to have him thrown in the street
As I have said before, a lot of you people arent just wrong, you are evil. And this remark proves it.
However, in mitigation, you are not the only one guilty of this revealing slip up. It happens frequently and gives the lie to the "love the sinner, hate the sin" BS. You people simply hate homosexuals.
Shame on you
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