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Seer Training: Christian or mysticism
A church in Scotland which is part of a mainstream denomination is running a course on Seer Training. Is this forward thinking or a route into occultic mysticism?
by Watchman
 We live in a day of both great threat and great opportunity.
Churches are haemhorraging members, our nation is now post-Christian and we are seeing new government legislation coming onto force which is making it more and more difficult for believers at all levels to maintain a solid Christian witness. A post-war baby boom of church leaders is heading for retirement whilst Christian denominations increasingly are following the secular tide into condoning and encouraging immoral models of relationship.
But change also presents great opportunity. Whenever prevailing and historical models are threatened, the loss of the status quo can produce a vacuum into which new things can flow and new paradigms emerge.
The question today is whether what is 'new' is biblical or a return to mystic and deviant practices.
The following is the blurb attaching to a forthcoming course in Scotland for Christians.
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The Seer Course
The Seer Course will walk you through the ancient Hebrew definition of the seeing gift and how it applies to you personally today. In this course, you will learn practical applications of how to function as a seer, how God wants to communicate with you as a seer, and how He taught Jeremiah to see.
You will grow in metaphorical (sic) [should be 'metaphysical'? - Ed.] understanding and be amazed as you realize all the implications and possibilities of this gift. Most importantly, this course will change your life at a day-to-day level and radically heighten your relationship with God.
The Seer Course addresses these questions and more:
- How do you know you have this gift?
- How do you know you’re not just making it up?
- Does seeing include more than just spiritual sight?
- How do you operate as a seer?
- What are orbs, lights, and strange things you think you see?
- What is the seer’s role in relationship with God and others?
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What is indisputable in the age in which we live is that 'new' things are emerging at an unprecedented rate and the need for spiritual discernment is critical in our time. The word of God teaches us that there is nothing new under the sun. But these things can reappear clad in a new (different) set of clothes, so the need for continual vigilance is paramount. And the most subtle forms of deception is counterfeit of the real thing. The danger is even greater when there is (some) truth mixed in with error.
But in these issues, the days of fence-sitting and abstract philosophising are over. Opportunity or threat? It's make your mind up time. |
Watchman, 28/08/2009
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(Guest) |
21/11/2014 21:40 |
John, of course John was an APOSTLE, a disciple of Christ! None can deny that! (Believers of course, I hope!)
Nevertheless, he WAS a seer! He saw into the future- Revelation 1.2 "Who bare record of the Word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he SAW" (emphasis mine).
A "seer" is merely a person whom God has shown visions of the future to, such as the apostle John!
I agree with your last sentence. Indeed I do, there are many today who call themselves apostles-I take it then that you don't believe in apostolic succession?
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John Miller |
22/11/2014 13:12 |
Scripture does not call the Apostle John a seer nor does it describe any other person in the New Testament so. You are giving him that title. So be it. John's revelation was unique to him and is recorded as part of the canon of scripture although many notable persons in the history of Christianity did not agree that it should be so.
There is nothing in scripture that would entitle any persons now to style themselves Apostles. I believe that those who do are very wrong.
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Editor |
22/11/2014 15:19 |
The word 'apostle' just means 'someone who is sent; a messanger'. There are no longer(capitalised) Apostles i.e. those first-generation of disciples, some of whom authored part of the canon of Scripture. However there has always been (lower-case) apostles (Eph 4:11) - Epaphroditus being one (Phil 2:25) and Titus another (2 Cor 8:23).
Given that John had to warn against false apostles (Rev. 2:2) tells us that there must have been true apostles also. (Counterfeiting can only occur in the context of an extant 'real thing'.)
So as for today, "Yes" to 'apostles'; "No" to 'Apostles'.
Incidentally 'Guest' the subject matter is 'apostles' and not 'charismatic gifts'. Please don't confuse yourself (and possibly others) by conflating the two. These are quite different issues. It is perfectly possible (as milllions do) to believe in the 'gifts' while discounting Apostolic succession.
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(Guest) |
22/11/2014 20:13 |
Editor,
I certainly agree with your definition of "apostle", but, as you well know there are very many Pentecostal Charismatic 'leaders' who would go well beyond that. Not only do they call themselves Apostle/apostles but prophets as well.
Is it really possible to believe that the 'charismatic gifts' are for today (tongues, healing and deliverance) without believing in Apostolic succession? The very fact that you say "as millions do" (maybe you are right) should not this be a cause for very great concern? How then were these 'gifts' transferred to those in our present day that 'perform' them?
Going back to the above article, it says; "In this course, you will learn practical applications of how to function as a seer, how God wants to communicate with you as a seer, and how He taught Jeremiah how to see."
None of these so-called "seer courses" can teach one how to be a "seer", in the sense that God 'taught' the prophet Jeremiah, Jeremiah 1.5? God CHOSE Jeremiah to his office of prophet, and a very uncomfortable one it was?
As regards the Patmos seer (the Apostle John), again, John did NOT choose this office, it was given him! He had no choice in the matter, totally unlike those want to be 'seers', Matthew 4.21. The Lord Jesus "called them".
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John Miller |
22/11/2014 20:57 |
"The Patmos seer"! Once again "Guset" you are inventing a non-scriptural title for a great servant of God who simply describes himself as "the disciple whom Jesus loved".
I believe in a simple rule, stick to scripture and its definition of what we must believe and teach.
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John Ferguson (Guest) |
22/11/2014 21:51 |
It would not be right to claim Apastoliic or Prophetic succession today,as you would be adding to the foundation that has already been laid according to Eph 2 v 20,you can only build on the foundation you cannot add to the foundation
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John Miller |
24/11/2014 09:33 |
John Ferguson I believe that your statement is absolutely correct and the disintegration of many denominations as well as the invention of pseudo-Christian sects (e.g. J.W's & Mormons) illustrate this.
I have been thinking about this "seer" business over the weekend and discussed its implications with some Christian friends.
We do not need to know the future other than what has been revealed to us in God's word. Everything that God wants us to know of future events has been revealed there in the way that He has chosen to make it known. As far as our personal lives is concerned all we need is faith and a childlike trust in our Heavenly Father.
People who turn to "seers" are taking themselves out of the pathway of faith. Those who claim to see the future do so in defiance of the words of Christ Himself Acts 1:7). We cannot add to scripture and those who claim Apostolic or Prophetic knowledge beyond God's word should note the warning in Rev. 22:19.
This confirms John Ferguson's comment.
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(Guest) |
25/11/2014 10:07 |
you cannot add to the foundation but can only build.
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A subtle and perhaps difficult to differentiate distinction in practice
The house built on solid foundations is lauded.
And yet where do the foundations end and the building begin.
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John Parker (Guest) |
25/11/2014 14:01 |
Question - "And yet where do the foundations end and the building begin."
Answer - Ephesians 2v20
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(Guest) |
25/11/2014 14:11 |
I would say a meaningless distinction.
However, the "chief cornerstone" is Jesus Christ.
But the question is, how is it possible for the charismatic gifts to exist today without believing in Apostolic succession? How then did they pass on to today's generation?
I certainly believe these gifts ended with the cessation of the Apostles, in fact even Paul couldn't heal anymore 2 Timothy 4.20? Regarding the "thorn in the flesh" the Lord told him "My grace is sufficient for thee" 2 Corinthians 12.9.
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