Christians Together : A response to Dawkins

Feedback:

(page 1 2)

	Not Calvin (Guest)	13/05/2008 18:11
James...I do believe in God, why did you assume I never? My point was that the thing you call churchianity is a devils brew, does your book not teach about wheat and tares? Does it not also that God will send delusion on his people in the last days? Maybe you can tell us how we (those outside of the church) can tell the difference between churchianity and christianity?
	James B (Guest)	13/05/2008 19:14
Sorry, Not Calvin, my mistake. And you are right about the wheat and the tares - there will be a separation. And your right about God sending a delusion. The Bible says in 2 Thessalonians 2v9-12 - "The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth bt have delighted in wickedness." The passage speaks about those who "refused to love the truth". And Jesus said: "I am the way, the truth and the life." It is a very important question you ask about how to tell the difference between churchianity and Christianity. It is difficult even speaking "from the inside." In most churches there is a mixture of those who are merely religious (going through the churchy routines) and those who have a relationship with Jesus Christ. You will find that the former will be happy to talk about (or at least refer to) "God." But they will seldom talk about Jesus - and never in the sense of knowing him at a personal level. Another way of telling is when you hear someone praying. If they are merely and always reading words off (from) a bit of paper, or speaking in a very impersonal way then it is not likely that they are a Christian. However if they pray as if they know who they are talking to then it is much more likely that they are. For instance, I might say that I know the Queen. But very quickly in conversation about her it would be apparent that I only "know of her". If you asked her she would not know me; and I don't in the very real and personal sense know her. But deception will be (is) a hallmark of the times preceding Jesus' return and many will be deceived. This is why (for Christians) it is imperative to know what the Bible says in order to separate truth from error.
	Peter Brown (Guest)	18/05/2008 01:49
It is interesting to note that the only responses i have got are from people who think i was never a "real" christian. Are you all Calvinists?
	Andrea MacArthur	18/05/2008 13:39
Peter, It is not for any one of us to decide who is or isn't a Christian. God alone knows that. However, God has given us His promise that, once we are truly saved, He never lets us go- not holding us against our will but protecting us through periods of doubt and trial. I can assure you I am not a Calvanist nor any other kind of 'ist'. I look only to Jesus for my guidance and that way I don't set myself up for disappointment when others don't match up (as is the case with me). Aside from God, only you can know whether you really knew Him, and, if you did, only you will have to face the consequences of rejecting His gift of salvation. As we all have the freedom of choice, it is our decision alone as to what we do with God's gift. I've chosen to accept it and can't imagine life (or death) without it. You have handed it back and time will tell whether that was a wise choice or not - but, as I've already said, that is your choice and you seem content with it.
	Peter Carr (Guest)	18/05/2008 16:36
Peter (Brown), I have no idea wether you are a real (or were) Christian. You will notice that my previous post was merely describing my experience. However, I would be interested in your view of apostasy. Thanks
	peter brown (Guest)	20/05/2008 00:03
To answer your question apostasy is the greatest thing thing a christian can experience. To be free from christian dogma which oppresses your real self is a beautiful experience.
	Peter Carr (Guest)	20/05/2008 07:46
But surely true Christianity is about relationship not religion? Not being entangled in dogma is sensible but to be truly apostate means rejecting the greatest love known to mankind, God's love through Jesus Christ the only name in heaven and earth by which people can be truly saved. Saved from the awful effects of sin, self, condemnation in God's eyes, the judgement to come... I am all in favour of rejecting manmade religion, but rejecting God's love through Jesus! Now that I truly know and experience His love every day, to reject it for me is not something I could possibly consider. Can I humbly suggest that you read Heb 10: 19 - 39, especially verse 29?
	(Guest)	21/05/2008 01:06
You are missing the whole point. There is no God and Jesus who love you they do not exist. By point out Heb 10:29 you have proven what Christianity is all about fear of being punished by a cruel dictator God.
	Editor	21/05/2008 06:41
Responding to (Guest)- God's "grace" (unmerited favour) is sometimes defined as "God withholding from us what we do deserve (i.e. judgement) and extending to us what we don't deserve (i.e. mercy). The Bible tells us that "while we were yet sinners Christ died for us." That's God's grace and mercy at work. Footnote: Could contributors please identify themselves one way or another in order to facilitate the response process. Thanks for your help.
	Peter Carr (Guest)	21/05/2008 08:24
"You are missing the whole point. There is no God and Jesus who love you they do not exist. By point out Heb 10:29 you have proven what Christianity is all about fear of being punished by a cruel dictator God" My experience tells me different. The Editors note is a sufficient response. If it is Peter Brown who is responding to my previous post, then I have to refer you to a post that you made which says; "It is interesting to note that the only responses i have got are from people who think i was never a "real" christian. Are you all Calvinists?" By comparison what right have you to tell me that 'I am missing the point...no God and Jesus exist', when my experience and understanding tell me otherwise? Maybe you are missing the point! Rom 8: 1ff tells me (and I know for certain), 'Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus...' I was prior to knowing God through Jesus, a rebel and a condemned sinner. But now I know by experience everyday that I am loved by God, and that I am now accepted not by what I have done, but by my faith in what Jesus has done.

(page 1 2)