Christians Together : When was Jesus born?

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	Scrooge (Guest)	02/12/2013 07:53
But Penny, Christmas, Easter and Halloween are all events produced and directed by the spirit of the world. If there is a difference between this unholy trio then I would single out 'Halloween' - on the basis that it is more honest in portraying its true, satanic origins........ If you, or indeed any true believer sees nothing wrong in worshipping God with satanic device and ritual' then I would respectfully remind them a God's response to the Israelites when they worshipped God by means if a golden calf fashioned from 'ideas and gold' from godless Egypt. Notwithstanding this I woud also reassure them that God, under the New Covenant, will lovingly, graciously and timeously deal with their ignorance - for there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ... Blessings
	Scrooge (Guest)	02/12/2013 09:12
Colin, you ask: why NOT celebrate the Saviour's birth on 25th December? And I would answer that I have no desire to give myself to playing any part in satanic theatre. For a Christian to give himself/herself to these satanic devices is exactly the same as adding truth to a lie - all it does is give the lie more credibility......in other words in adds 'deceiving' strength to the lie
	Penny Lee	02/12/2013 09:57
Scrooge, I think we will have to agree to differ. Celebrating (the true meaning of) Christmas and Easter does not conflict with my conscience or relationship with God in any way because God knows what is in my heart and what indeed it is that I am celebrating. If either of these practices involved worshipping anything at all, other than Christ Himself, then I would certainly not be doing it. I see no harm in an artificial tree and cannot accept it is the same as an idol, unless you were 'worshipping' it. If having an artificial replica of anything in your home can be regarded as an 'idol' then none of us should have ornaments or garden gnomes. The only ornaments I will not have in my house are those which depict other religions, or things like totem poles, ornaments with occult-like symbols, gargoyles and that sort of thing. I am not at all comfortable with them and will not have them in my home.
	Scrooge (Guest)	02/12/2013 10:25
Penny, Indeed, in Christ we do have he freedom to agree and disagree on matters of 'religious' conscience - however I do believe, to appease your carnal nature (we all have one) that you have developed a 'blind spot' regarding Easter and Christmas. The name Easter is not Christian, it is derived from the name(s) of false gods - and Christ(mass) is as big an insult as you could deliver to the constant presence of the Holy Spirit in the believer's life. However, I will leave you, sister - to the loving chastening of our Lord and Saviour - who was born in and around the Feast of Tabernacles
	Penny Lee	02/12/2013 11:10
I'm glad that we do indeed have the freedom to disagree on matters of religious conscience. In instances like this, we have to follow our conscience and so if you feel you cannot join in the festivities of Christmas and Easter then that is fine too.
	John Miller	02/12/2013 13:21
Scrooge, I believe that you are stepping over a line that you ought to have observed. You presume to criticise a fellow believer's "carnal nature" and accuse her of appeasing it. You also make a very presumptious assumption that the Lord Jesus will chasten her. The Christian lady in question has identified herself as Penny Lee. Her contributions to these forums have been thoughtful and are clearly based on a true Christian faith. You attack her, and I use that expression carefully, from the anonymity of a false name. May I ask you why you conceal your identity?
	Scrooge (Guest)	02/12/2013 15:02
John, I did not, and cannot stand in (critical) judgement on another believer's carnal nature. I was a sinner saved by grace with no inherent goodness to boast of - or any innate godliness which would place me in position to criticise any other person in the world. And as far as carnal nature is concerned we all have one - and we all, knowingly or otherwise, seek to appease it from time to time. When I suggested this to Penny it was not given with a supercilious, better than thou judgemental attitude. As for the Lord's chastening - I thank God for it, for without it I for one would have made no progress in my Christian walk...NONE. The Lord chastens those who He loves.....And if you haven't been chastened...........you have a problem Could it be, I wonder, that your response to me is not based on the 'hivalrous' protection of Penny's honour and sensitivities - but is founded on the protection and defence of your own sensitivities? Do you celebrate Christmas or Easter ? Finally, what difference does my name make to anything which I might proclaim?......for truly I am nothing without Christ PS I might be wrong - but I do not believe that Penny felt attacked by me - she presented her case confidently - and I answered her honestly - and as fellow believers we have agreed to disagree. As I said earlier perhaps it is you and not Penny who has been intimidated/challenged by my posts. Finally, Do I detect as judgemental/critical/superior attitude to me in your writings? As my Saviour has said 'Judge not - lest you be judged....
	John Miller	02/12/2013 16:15
Srooge I neither feel intimidated nor challenged by your posts. Penny graciously felt no need to defend herself. Your suggestion that I feel superior to you and the rest of these nonsensical labels are false but if that is the deceit under which you want to shelter so be it. You have attributed what is satanic to those who take part in the celebration of Christmas. Whether I approve or not of Christmas observance I would not nor could not lay that charge on any fellow believer. Interesingly God's word tells us that Satan conceals his identity by disguising himself as an angel of light. I make no further comment.
	Editor	02/12/2013 17:19
Scrooge, Have a read of Romans ch 14 and then perhaps find some other vehicle for any more "Bah Humbug" messages which you wish to post please.
	Scrooge (Guest)	02/12/2013 18:44
John, You state: You have attributed what is satanic to those who take part in the celebration of Christmas. Whether I approve or not of Christmas observance I would not nor could not lay that charge on any fellow believer. Do you think that believers are immune from satanic temptation, influence, interference or distraction? Read the story of Job...and then read the story of Jesus' temptation in the wilderness, and thereafter consider what Jesus said to Peter when that disciple protested against His forthcoming fate, what was it? 'Get behind me Satan' ??? Believers are not immune to spiritual/satanic attack - read Ephesians 6/11-12 - and unfortuntely Satan's greatest weapon is deception... You write that Satan disguises himself as an angel of light with the heavy implication that I am such an angel.....so once again you perpetrate against me the same sin of which you accuse me. All of which is continuing to suggest to me that, contrary to your protests, I have indeed challenged you.

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When was Jesus born?

In spite of the carol which sings of 'in the bleak mid-Winter' and in spite of any hard evidence regarding the time of Jesus birth it is highly unlikely that He was born in December.