Current News 

Tron Church quits the Church of Scotland

One of the highest-profile congregations in Scotland has quit the national church over the latter's alleged departure from the authority of God's Word.

 


first published 17/06/12

UPDATE 08/10/12

Tron congregation writes to Glasgow Presbytery

UPDATE 08/12/12

Court Papers served on Church during prayer meeting

Meanwhile one of the Tron leadership writes:
"Our congregation numbers have been building steadily and I was told that this morning there was only two seats left on he ground floor and the gallery full."


TronLast Monday a very prominent city-centre church in Glasgow commonly known as ‘the Tron’, took a step into the unknown when on June 11th 2012, the congregation quit the Church of Scotland.

The Rev. Dr. William Philip, minister of the 500-strong congregation of St George’s Tron Church located in the bustling shopping precinct of Buchanan Street has affirmed that this was and is no rash move. Concerning this development he has written: “Our decision to separate from the Church of Scotland is the culmination of careful thought, sincere discussion and prayer for over 12 months.”

The congregation are leaving a denomination which the former believes is separating itself from the authority of God’s word. Writing on the Tron’s website the clergyman continues:

“Last year, despite having had the clear opportunity, the General Assembly failed to reverse the stance taken in 2009 approving the appointment of ordained ministers in same-sex relationships. Instead, it clearly and deliberately chose to set an opposite trajectory towards normalising such relationships. In doing so the highest court of the Kirk has marginalised the Bible, the written Word of God. We believe the Church of Scotland is choosing to walk away from the biblical gospel, and to walk apart from the faith of the worldwide Christian Church.”

If the leadership and congregation at the Tron needed any additional reason(s) to quit the Church of Scotland, then the decision by the denomination’s General Assembly last month to allow other faith groups to hold services in Kirk buildings has provided a further prompt. (The question was brought to the floor of the most recent Assembly largely because of the actions of Rev. Scott Rennie – the Aberdeen minister at the heart of the gay clergy issue – who has given permission to Hindu groups to use the Queen’s Cross church premises for worship.)

Although media headlines have stated that the Tron’s departure represents the first local church to leave the denomination, in a de facto sense the (bulk of the) congregation of High Hilton church in Aberdeen quit the Kirk last October. On that occasion however those involved moved out of the church building.

In the case of the Tron church, the congregation most recently raised millions of pounds to cover a major refurbishment. One church member who was at the heart of the very substantial upgrade to the building has commented:

“Regardless of the risks and the fact that many members provided substantial sacrificial offerings for the development of the building as a gospel station in the city centre, the membership have put biblical priorities in first place ahead of buildings.”

In the event, the overall total expenditure was close to £3M - most of which was paid for by the membership.

Any significant Church of Scotland news would normally result in a media statement from the Kirk’s HQ, however, in this case, the denomination would seem to be downplaying the situation. It has merely, and on request, provided a ‘comment’ which states:

We can confirm that we have been informed by the Minister and Session Clerk of Glasgow St George’s Tron that they and a number of members wish to leave the Church of Scotland because of the decisions taken by the 2011 General Assembly.’
 
Included is a response from a Church of Scotland spokesperson:

“The Presbytery of Glasgow and the Church of Scotland General Trustees are saddened at the decision of the Minister and members of Glasgow St George’s Tron to leave the Church of Scotland. Discussions will take place with representatives of the Tron over the coming weeks to clarify the situation and determine the best way of preserving a Church of Scotland ministry presence in Glasgow city centre. No decisions have been taken about the on-going use of the building, or the outstanding financial obligations to the Church of Scotland and the General Trustees.”

The Kirk’s communiqué adds:

• The Congregation of the St George’s Tron Church have outstanding arrears on their contributions to Ministries and Mission in the Church of Scotland.
• There is also an outstanding loan made by the General Trustees to the congregation in 2007 to support a remodelling of the building.
• Glasgow Presbytery has a special commission looking at the plan for ministry in Glasgow city centre. It is due to report later this year.
• The St George’s Tron building is owned by the Church of Scotland General Trustees.
• No other congregations have indicated any intention to leave the Church of Scotland, although we are aware of a number of individuals who are unhappy with the direction they perceive the Church to be taking. Each set of circumstances is different.
• The Church of Scotland has set up a Theological Commission to examine whether persons in a civil partnership are eligible for admission for training, ordination and induction as ministers of Word and Sacrament or deacons, among other issues, and a further report will be presented to the 2013 General Assembly. It is disappointing that any Minister or members feel the need to leave the Church before the Commission reports. We stress that no final decisions have been taken, and the Church is currently holding more dialogue on this issue.

The finances of each parish church are tied to the Kirk's central funds but the present occupiers of the 17th-century site are likely to claim their investment of time and money earns a moral entitlement to ownership. Given the congregation’s desire to remain in the building it is difficult to see how the issue will be resolved without recourse to legal channels.



Footnotes:
1. The Tron is one the best-known evangelical Church of Scotland congregations – with an impressive list of Bible-preaching luminaries serving as former ministers including Rev. Thomas Chalmers from 1815 -1819. Additionally the location at the heart of the main shopping centre in Scotland’s largest city gives the building a very prominent profile.

2. Since the General Assemblies of May 2009 and 2010 considerable upset has been experienced across the denomination over the Church of Scotland’s persistent failure to unequivocably state its position on what the Bible allows (and disallows) regarding human sexual relationships. In the wake of last year’s Assembly a meeting was held in the Tron which saw hundreds of ministers and elders from across Scotland gather to express their grave concerns. A Christians Together report was prepared following that meeting.

Subsequently a further assessment of the situation within Scotland’s national church was written up under the title ‘Harvest is past; the summer has ended’. Since that time some ministers and many members have quit the denomination. Many who remain are withholding their giving to central church funds and this action is exacerbating the serious financial situation in which the denomination finds itself.

The departure of the Tron’s minister, elders and congregation with the high-level of attendant risk regarding their recent investments in the premises, is indicative of the extent to which they place little faith in the denomination reversing its acceptance of gay clergy.
Another high-profile congregation which has also recently made a high level of investment in its building is amongst other local churches considering their future within the denomination. Reverend Dominic Smart said elders at Gilcomston South Church in Aberdeen disagreed with the General Assembly's stance, feeling it had "marginalised" the Bible.

3. Concerning the Tron congregation's future the statement on its website affirms:

“We cannot depart from the historic foundations of our Church, and will not separate from communion with orthodox Christian believers globally. Consequently, we intend to realign with a church grouping which remains clearly and publicly committed to orthodox Christianity.

“Our ongoing work remains our priority. We are a diverse, growing Christian family made up of people from all walks of life, of all ages, from many nations. We are passionate about the life of our church in Glasgow City Centre, serving the city seven days a week. Our earnest desire is that we can continue our wide-ranging service to the people of Glasgow uninterrupted. To this end, although we are no longer part of the Church of Scotland, the leaders of our congregation remain in positive and constructive engagement with the denomination. Our goal is to ensure that all issues around this separation are dealt with reasonably and peaceably, and for the honour of our Lord Jesus Christ.”

4. For a short history of the Church of Scotland and derivative presbyterian denominations from 1560 to the present day, see article 'Presbyterianism - Scottish style'.


Christians Together, 17/06/2012

Feedback:
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Alasdair (Guest) 21/11/2012 09:03
I said that I wasn’t going to post on this site again – and maybe I should be wise and stick to that. However, I do just want to clarify what I was saying as some people seem to have misunderstood. Ewan calls me a “self-styled evangelical” which I assume is not intended as a compliment. Slapping labels on people is not helpful, especially when it involves people we don’t know. Stereotypes can be misleading. I am NOT actually seeking to condone “sexual immorality and filth”. What I AM saying is that, from a Biblical point of view, the gay issue is RELATIVELY trivial in comparison with the great problems, challenges and opportunities that face the Christian gospel in Scotland and in the wider world today. Now, I may be wrong in my interpretation. But please, Ewan, don’t just make assumptions as a matter of course.

At the end of the day, we are all unworthy servants. We all have to do what we believe to be right. I remember the late Rev William Still saying to me “Never underestimate what the world thinks of the church.” When the world sees members of Christ’s church throwing insults at one another and condemning one another in a way which would be considered inappropriate in the secular world –well, what does the world think of that? What kind of witness is it? Or does it really not matter? If insults are clothed in Biblical texts, does that make them OK? Is it impossible for Christian people to beg to differ without spewing out words of condemnation?

Basically, all I was trying to suggest in a previous posting was that, in reference to the situation at St George’s Tron it would be helpful to all sides just to “cool it” a little. I believe that the continuing congregation, with suitable mediation, could still come to an accommodation with the Church of Scotland over the use of the building and manse that would be honourable on both sides. However, I believe the ongoing war of words is not helping anybody, given especially the extravagant language that has been used in some places. I hope I may have clarified what I was saying. I will now shut up. Have a blessed day, everyone.

John Parker (Guest) 21/11/2012 10:24
Alasdair, you said - "What I AM saying is that, from a Biblical point of view, the gay issue is RELATIVELY trivial in comparison with the great problems, challenges and opportunities that face the Christian gospel in Scotland and in the wider world today"

I'm sorry Alasdair, I just cannot agree with you. Homosexuality (let's avoid the euphemisms) and same-sex marriage strike at the very heart of God's order for His created world and human behaviour.

Attempts to minimise the issue play right into the hands of the arch enemy of God. There will always be wars and poverty and injustice, and these are not trivial matters either, but the pervasive, prevailing and destructive attacks on the God's created order of 'man and woman' take us right back to the Garden of Eden. And we all know what happened there.

This is a spiritual battle of the greatest magnitude.
Editor 21/11/2012 12:15
TRON FOLKS FIND ENCOURAGEMENT IN THE MIDST

The following comes from a member of the Tron Church, Glasgow:

"For your encouragement, as we face the eviction from the [St. George's Tron church] building in Buchanan Street, on Sunday evening 52 men and woman - all born again Christians - joined the church; 4 of whom were baptised.
Seumas, Tobermory (Guest) 21/11/2012 13:38
The 52 who have joined the Tron shows that the Tron must be doing something right!

However, I dont trust bald figures. Were those 52 members of other churches who now worship at the Tron?

In other words, refugees from elsewhere? Or are they people who have all been recently converted under the Trons teaching?

A lot of so called church growth isnt growth at all but as someone put it "recycling of the saints". Churchers dont get "planted" so much as "repotted"

Frequently, a church becomes the trendy place to go, and they get an "increase" But only at the expense of other churches. I am not saying this is the case with the Tron, but it does happen elsewhere.

Unless there is actual organic growth - non-christians going to church, getting involved and getting converted, then it is just a recycling exercise.

The sum total of Christians in the land remains the same.
Seumas, Tobermory (Guest) 21/11/2012 14:09
Further to what I wrote above, I came across this page of stats and graphs. I found the link from a Telegraph blog about the women bishops vote in the CofE:

http://matthiasmedia.com/briefing/2011/08/does-the-future-have-a-church/

And heres the Telegraph blog which is worth a read:

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/timstanley/100190837/in-its-search-for-relevance-the-anglican-church-is-losing-relevance/

Editor 21/11/2012 14:48
Thanks for the links Seumas. I am doing something on the Anglican thing right now.

Regarding the '52' who have are now joining with the Tron congregation, I don't get the sense that the Tron are claiming them to be new converts. I could very well imagine that these are folk from other Church of Scotland congregations who are detaching themselves from the denomination.

In my estimation (and in relation to the Scottish-wide scene) this will be a continuing trend for as long as denominations set 'trajectories' which can only end up in spiritual darkness. (Matt 15:14)

Your use of the word 'refugees' is very apposite - referring as it does to those who have to leave their natural homeland because of disasters.

This is much different from the spiritually footloose to whom you refer.
Seumas, Tobermory (Guest) 21/11/2012 16:08
It'll be interesting to read your take on Anglicanism - I like these articles. There is a lot gets discussed here in depth that should IMO, get discussed a lot more widely!

There is another set of sobering data on the Whychurch web site. Figures are 5 years out of date, but interesting and challenging at the same time:

http://www.whychurch.org.uk/trends.php

The list of questions on the RHS of the page are all very pertinent. This one in particular:

http://www.whychurch.org.uk/gendergap.php

Easy to get bogged down in this sort of stuff I suppose, and there is also the business of being able to prove anything with stats, but there do seem to be distinctive trends and patterns.

Finding answers however is another matter!

Editor 21/11/2012 16:25
Seumas, Interesting stuff indeed. You may wish to start a Forum thread on "Why are there so few men in the churches?"
(Sorry: I just don't have the time right at this moment to look at this important question.)
Jenny 21/11/2012 19:37
"...... from a Biblical point of view, the gay issue is RELATIVELY trivial in comparison with the great problems, challenges and opportunities that face the Christian gospel in Scotland and in the wider world today...."

Someone on the pro-women-bishops side of the anglican debate was arguing very similarly today. The C of E is supposedly losing credibility by fixating on a "relatively trivial" issue when there are so many "more important" things to be striving about; and the speaker mentioned unemployment and a few other social problems.
I think that says it all.
Social problems more important than the question of whether the church believes God's Word or conforms to the world??
I don't think so.
The great problems, challenges and opportunities that face the Christian gospel in Scotland and in the wider world today [sic] cannot even be thought about,... we have nothing whatsoever to bring to them, if we are in two minds about the ground we stand on.
Penny Lee 21/11/2012 21:06
Absolutely Jenny. When we fixate solely on social issues (important though they are), we become just another social service and there are plenty of them already doing a good job. The church's purpose is to point people to Christ and we can only do that effectively when we know Him properly ourselves. To know Him is to also obey him and we are not obeying Him when we distort His word in order to be popular with people. The gospel has never been popular right from its inception so what makes us think it is going to be popular now?

Of the two options to either tell people what they want to hear rather than what they need to hear, or not tell people at all, I think not telling them at all is the kinder option. Imagine being responsible for actually leading people astray by assuring them that they can live whatever lifestyle they choose and still be acceptable to God! Why would you do that to someone just to be popular with them? Is that a kindness? - no, it's not!
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