Debates (Open)

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(Guest) 31/05/2016 21:37
Whatever sort of comment is that? Please explain!
JL (Guest) 01/06/2016 19:39
The definition of "misunderstanding" according to ANY good dictionary, means "to understand wrongly". It is NOT, I repeat NOT, "a deliberate choice". Why would any sane individual deliberately choose to misunderstand? This is most baffling!
Talk about burying yourself into a deeper hole!

1 John 4.1-there are many deceivers in our midst.
Editor 02/06/2016 09:28
OK guys and gals, let's get back on track.
JL (Guest) 02/06/2016 10:24
One last comment on this-
I think it true that 'dogma' is just one of those unfortunate words that people naturally hate for some reason?
A bit like 'Pharisee', it has received much bad PR over the years.

Colin (Guest) (Guest) 04/06/2016 18:14
What are the scripture verses either OT or NT that indicate a world wide revival harvest of new believers just before Christ comes ?
(Guest) 04/06/2016 20:09
There is a great misunderstanding about this. Many think "All Israel shall be saved" Rom 11.26, but only "a remnant shall be saved" Rom 9.27 (yes, same author!). This is the remnant in Zechariah 12.10/John 19.37/Rev 1.7. And of course the Church which will include Jews and Gentiles comprise a "great multitude that no man could number" Rev 7.9, this great multitude includes every saved person from Adam to the great white throne judgment.
There is nothing in scripture to say that there will be a "worldwide revival harvest of new believers", only that-

"The promise is to you and your children and All-that are afar off, even as MANY as the Lord our God shall call." Acts 2.39.
Editor 09/06/2016 14:56
One of the problems with the use of the (English-language) word 'All' is that it is ambiguous.
'All' can mean either (a)'All' without exception or (b) 'All' without distinction.

For example, when I say I love all my family I mean each and every one. But when I say that all men should live free I mean all who are not a danger to society: those who are should be sequestered.

The principle of 'remnant' runs through Scripture like a thread.

PS. Please do not post anonymously as 'Guest': it causes confusion. Use a name. Thank you.
(Guest) 09/06/2016 21:45
Most certainly "ALL" is a word that NEEDS to be qualified by the context, otherwise as you rightly say ambiguity would result. Romans 9.27 might then be paraphrased as "ALL the remnant shall be saved"? That is "ALL" the remnant which is IN Israel/Jerusalem when the time comes to pass, in which Zechariah 12.10 and its parallel scriptures I have quoted above, are realised.
Acts 2.39 is a case in point; is the promise to EVERY one (ALL) that "are afar off", or to only as "many as the Lord our God shall call"?
Mini 14/06/2016 17:01
Colin (Guest), That is precisely how I started out – asking those who believe in the end time harvest for bible proofs, but no one could come up with an answer. Now however, I believe those who are praying ardently for the end time harvest are moving in the Will of God, whether they understand it or no: they just obey the promptings of the Spirit. Me, I am like Thomas!

I think it is there in the Bible, but “not as we know it”!
When I was a young woman, I suddenly thought, “Where does the Bible teach about the Trinity?” And I was looking up “Trinity” and “Three in One”, and of course it wasn’t there. Troubled, I prayed about it, and God began to show me that it is there, but not as I had been taught – magic formulas; Celtic triangles; and so on.

I think the same applies to this harvest thing. I have a lot of studying to do, but I believe we need to see as God sees and not with our merely human minds. I am now so struck by how much the Bible talks about harvests.

So far, I conclude there is one harvest. And the whole of Time is for the sake of the Elect and can be seen as one great harvest. (Have a look at 1 Cor. 3 especially this extraordinary part: “For all things are your's; Whether Paul….or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are your's; And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.”

Everything that happens has to do with completing the harvest. The salvation of souls is the measure of Time and Events in the World. The End will not come until the harvest is ripe, and when that last person has come into the Kingdom, Jesus will “thrust in His sharp sickle because, suddenly, the harvest is ripe. (The Rapture) and once that is done, then will come the vintage (The Grapes of Wrath).
So, instead of one great “dollop” of souls at the end (though I do believe that the Jews will be saved right at the end as one great “dollop”) it’s simply that the whole of the harvest will suddenly be ripe. Peter says: “as you anticipate and hasten the coming of the day of God”. So how can we “hasten” the coming of that Day? I suggest it’s by “praying the Lord of the harvest that He thrust forth labourers into His harvest.” I suggest one harvest, the consummation of which will happen right at the end. The judgement of the Wicked is actually dependent upon it.

It would stand to reason that there would be a gradual crescendo, and looking back over the last 2,000 years that seems to be happening. Two very remarkable things are happening NOW: thousands of Jews are coming to know Jesus and so are thousands of Muslims. Before, these two groups were never converted to Jesus (except the odd single exceptions).

It isn’t like: 1000 people were saved last year. 350 people were saved the year before. That’s how we think. God knows and thinks about that precise number overall, only known to Him, who will be saved and brought into His garners by the Time of the End.

My suggestion is that the Body of Christ has been a wee bit slovenly about preaching the Gospel over the last 2,000 years, and so He will put a bomb behind us so we finish off the work! I know it doesn’t exactly say that in the bible – but the hints are there!

Persecution and suffering are God’s tools. Just as CS Lewis, in “The Horse and His Boy” describes a scene where the boy is urging the horse to go faster. The horse insists he is going as fast as he can already. Then suddenly, Aslan (representing Jesus) leaps out behind the horse, disguised as an ordinary lion, and the horse is so frightened he runs twice as fast as his fastest!

This is no time to sit tight and batten down the hatches. The salvation of all souls whom God has chosen must be accomplished. As an aside, I think there will be a great many people desperate for salvation in the closing age. There already are. Look at that terribly sad cases of three top Swiss bankers who have killed themselves recently. Don’t think everyone is hooting their way into hell – the harvest truly is plentiful but there is a shortage of labourers.

Colin (Guest) 14/06/2016 18:45
Hi Mini,

Yes, bye and large I would agree with all you have written. Ref the the numerous times harvest is mentioned is common to the use of agricultural themes our Lord Jesus uses to help explain spiritual truths.

I would say we are certainly close to the end and the final great harvest at the end of the age.

By the way you write we can see you are truly a woman after Gods own heart and share his compassion for the lost and his work in reaching out to them in love.

Carry on being a good labourer in the Lord Mini

Aslan is on the move
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