Debates (Open)

   
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Mini 24/10/2016 16:33
David, I have just read the book, "How Will the World End". I got it from Amazon with free delivery!

The Editor would have my guts for garters if I told you the author's point of view, but his point of view is quite vague really.

I would recommend the book. It is very short - 93 pages, and actually, only one small chapter is about the Millenium. Up until that chapter, it is very encouraging and inspiring: it made me focus on Jesus and His glory not the doom and gloom around. The author has a good style of communication too. The Millenium chapter is quite brief, and helpful in simply giving the bare bones of differing view points. From then on, he mainly tells you you should be supporting the local church! The main drawback of the book is he doesn't deal with The Rapture - merely mentions it in the context of other things. This is a serious flaw, I think.

Thousands of Christians seem to be fixing their hope on escaping before things get bad. One of the Chinese church leaders has said that in China, they were taught to expect Rapture, and when they started to experience persecution, torture and death, the faith of many took a serious blow.

It would be far more helpful if church leaders could start preparing their people for suffering, and in not doing so, they are leaving them weak and vulnerable. Jesus always said: Behold, I have told you beforehand that your faith fail not.

The Ashers Bakery case has been lost, so we can expect that suffering and persecution start here! Christians are simply not going to be able to do certain jobs or run certain companies. It's odd really, because I think God is arranging it as part of our "Exodus" from the present world order.
(Guest) 24/10/2016 21:24
Mini, thanks for that. Put your review on Amazon! I don't need another lightweight book on my bookshelf. How many Christian books does a man need? I might even write one! It would be FAR weightier than the book you have just read.
I have an unshakable conviction that Christ's Second Coming will be pre-millennial. I would add that none of us are saved because of our 'perfect' knowledge of prophecy! (then we would all be doomed!) It is all of God's sovereign electing grace-alone. But having said this, I see (as your mention of Ashers confirms) the world is getting worse and worse, despite the 'best' efforts of gospel preaching? The world system that we see before us will at the height of its wickedness usher in the Antichrist, who will then be destroyed by "the brightness of His coming" 2 Thess 2.8, then comes the long awaited glorious millennial reign of Christ.
This rapture cult gets to me. Yes the believers at Christ's coming WILL meet Him "in the air" 1 Thess 4.17, then "so shall we ever be with the Lord". The rapture happens at Christ's return. Have you read what Corrie Ten Boom has to say about the rapture?

The Lord bless you.

Dale M 26/10/2016 19:08
I have also read the book ' How will the world end?' I agree the book provides a very good overview of the various eschatological views. For anyone without any basic knowledge, it would be very informative. The treatment of each view is very fair-minded and provides the strengths and weaknesses of each system without bias. The authors real purpose is to get us to think how, in the light of Christ's imminent return, we should live and how to prepare ourselves for that climactic event. That is the main challenge in the book. A minor criticism in my point of view is the authors frequent reference to Matt. 24 using the verses in this chapter only in the context of the second coming. Many theologians would suggest that the events of Matt 24 are mainly (but not exclusively) about AD70. There are prophecies in Scripture that can be interpreted in both a primary and a secondary sense. Prophecies that have dual applications - fulfilled within a relatively short time after being prophesied as well as having a much later future fulfilment - are called proleptic prophecies. Matt 24 is likely to be such a proleptic prophecy.
That said, the book is certainly a good read written by a well-informed author.
David (Guest) 26/10/2016 23:12
Dale M-do you believe that matt 24 and Luke 21 speak of the same event?
Editor 27/10/2016 10:30
David, If you wish to continue to engage (and I have no problem with that) could I ask you to register with the site. Many thanks. You will find a link just under the banner at the top of the page.e Ed.
Dale M 27/10/2016 12:29
Matt 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21 are accounts written by 3 persons all recording the same event in the life of Jesus. Background being that the disciples were remarking to Jesus about the beautiful temple buildings. Jesus responded by telling them that 'not one stone here will be left on another....'This literally happened in AD70.
I don't want to make a big issue of this because this thread is really about END TIME REVIVAL/HARVEST OF SOULS. My contribution to this topic will therefore now end.
Editor 27/10/2016 13:28
Mini said: "The Editor would have my guts for garters if I told you the author's point of view, but his point of view is quite vague really."
Mini, could I please ask that you refrain from assuming any requirement I have, or any actions I would take with regard to keeping my socks up?

Regarding Matt 24, this chapter is viewed by many scholars as the 'spinal chord' of all NT prophesy.
And as Dale has rightly pointed out any one prophesy can have more than one fulfillment. And indeed the destruction of the temple has been fulfilled.

The crossover to the 'end time' verses commence at verse 13 which concludes: "and then the end will come".




Mini 27/10/2016 16:35
Editor, I was, in a tongue-in-cheek way, avoiding going against you or overriding you! No disrespect was intended - quite the opposite.
(Guest) 27/10/2016 17:35
Don't worry Min!
Some Christians are totally devoid of any sense of humour, as you have just found out!
I don't believe for one second that you were undermining/overriding him, or meant any disrespect.
(Guest) 28/10/2016 00:22
The problem with confounding Matthew 24/Mark 13 with Luke 21, is it gives rise to the 'fact' that Jesus was a false prophet.

In the words of an old time writer;

Is then the season of tribulation, thus solemnly predicted, past, or is it yet to come? This question is readily answered. One distinctive mark of THE UNEQUALLED season of tribulation is, that IMMEDIATELY after it the Lord will appear in glory: "IMMEDIATELY after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light....And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven; and then shall all the tribes of the Land mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory." etc. The corresponding words in Mark are not less express: "But IN THOSE DAYS, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened," etc. Now if, as has been commonly said, the unequalled season of tribulation is past, if it occurred 1800 years ago (written 150+ years ago!), when Jerusalem was captured by the Romans, then we must say that "IMMEDIATELY AFTER" it, and "IN THOSE DAYS," the sun and moon were darkened, and that the Lord returned in glory, and that He sent His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and gathered together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to another. But was it so?
Infidels have long seen the impossibility of our truthfully saying this; and ASSUMING that the predicted tribulation is past, have argued that the Lord Jesus must have been a false prophet; for that He said He would come in glory IMMEDIATELY after the capture of Jerusalem, and He did not come. They say (and they say rightly) that the word IMMEDIATELY (euthus) is emphatic. Indeed it is the emphatic word of the chapter. The disciples had asked, What shall be the sign of Thy coming? The Lord answers, that the unequalled season of tribulation is THE sign: for that IMMEDIATELY after it He will appear. And so it shall be. His words shall be strictly, and in all minuteness, fulfilled. There will be the unequalled tribulation of which He spake, and IMMEDIATELY after it He will come in His glory.
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